INSIDE Inside Sales

Games People Play

October 17, 2022

INSIDE Inside Sales

Tune in to INSIDE Inside Sales with Darryl Praill for actionable strategies and tactics from top sales experts to increase your sales development success. Darryl has unscripted conversations with the leading sales experts, from veteran sales pros to the newest rising stars. If you’re looking for lively debate, spirited conversations, and proven sales know-how, you’ve come to the right podcast.

Have you ever secretly thought of starting a podcast? You're about to find out why all sales reps should be indulging that dream.

In this episode, Darryl is joined by Casey Cheshire, Founder, CEO & Podcast Architect at Ringmaster Conversational Marketing. They explore how podcasting delivers the responses, honesty, and attention from your customers that you can't get any other way, why you do have time in your schedule for a podcast, and how to get started.


Find Casey on LinkedIn, or at the Ringmaster Conversational Marketing website.

Connect with Darryl on LinkedIn.


INSIDE Inside Sales is now a member of the Sales IQ Network. Say goodbye to missing your quota, with our Create Pipeline Course.

Darryl Praill
Host @ INSIDE Inside Sales Podcast + CMO @ AgoraPulse
Casey Cheshire
Founder, CEO & Podcast Architect @ Ringmaster Conversational Marketing

[00:00:00] Darryl Praill: My name is Darryl Praill. I'm your host and you, my friend, well, you and I we're gonna go on a journey every single week, talking to the industry's most accomplished sales legends, as they share with us, their tips, their tricks, their techniques, and their tactics to becomes sales rockstars. You simply need to do what they're doing and you will achieve similar nirvana. If you like to laugh, you like to be entertained, if you'd like to go off on tangents and tell stories, you're going to love what you're going to hear next. Sit back, relax, it's going to get real.

Folks, we are back. We're back. Oh, today's a fun one. Today's a fun one. You're gonna see why in. This is gonna be a very meta show, not meta as in the company, firmly known as Facebook, but meta because this is a podcast and this is gonna be a podcast about podcasts. How's that? So in some regards, you, my wonderful audience are almost better suited to host this conversation than I am.

And the reason I say that is because, You have chosen to subscribe to this show and listen to it, and I'm, at least I'm assuming you're subscribed as opposed to finding me randomly through an awkward search on the internet. So you've done that, which means you probably subscribe to more than one show.

You probably subscribe to many if you're like me, I have a massive list of podcasts that refreshes every single day and consumes all my data, and I had to make sure I did not have cellular updates. On here in Canada, we have finite data and it was using all my data. So these are challenges they have with podcasts.

Anyway you, you, you are the perfect person for this conversation. So let me ask you this. When you listen to podcasts, why, why do you listen to. Why do you listen to the podcast? Do you listen because you like me saying things like the inside, inside sales show, cuz you just think that's just obnoxious.

But it still puts a smile on your face and giggles and therefore you come back. Or do you listen because you like the individual, the personality? Maybe you, maybe you connect with me and my method of conversation are my smart ass. Tendencies. For example, do you listen for the content? Is it the content that's really, you know, personality is secondary, whatever.

Do you listen for the duration? Is it I'll listen to a half hour show or a 15 minute show, but I won't listen to an hour show or the opposite? I'll listen to a three hour show, but I won't listen to a half hour show there. There's so many things and reasons why you listen. The challenge with that is kind of like the challenge with selling, and that's the tie in a little bit, which is when we're trying to appeal to our buyers, our prospective buyers, we don't necessarily know what, We don't necessarily know what they are valuing.

Are they trying to fix a process? Are they trying to save some money? Are they trying to reduce head count? And they view that my solution might be able to help 'em do that. Are they trying to increase efficiencies? I could go on. You get the idea and the, and, and so what we end up doing if we're good, is we end up creating an ideal customer profile.

And a persona where we try to characterize the attributes and pain points and issues and goals and KPIs that our target audience who would be a good fit for our product, likely has experiences, values, is in pursuit of, and then a good discovery session. Will allow you to get much more specific and then tailor your message, your demonstrations, or what have you to really connect with them and demonstrate your value.

But it, it's like a funnel, right? You're starting off wide and I, and I have these concepts and I get narrower and narrower. Narrower. Well, it's the same on podcast. Whether you as a listener are, are doing that. And the challenge for us, Publishers of podcasts is that we're trying to grow our audience, understandably, because it's not, We don't just do this because we enjoy the conversations with you, obviously.

We also do this to socialize content within our tribe. We do this to build our own personal brand. We do this to build our reach. We do this to build the perception of us as thought leaders or experts or as trusted advisors. Because you know, it's all about often, you know, the biggest source of inbound deals remains to this day think it always has for decades and decades and decades, which is referrals.

And those referrals can often come from the fact that you listened to my podcast, heard me talk about something, how to guest on, and then you go back to your buddy who's having the problem we just talked about and you say You should talk to Darrell or you should talk to Darrell's Gas or talk to them both cuz they just talked about this.

In fact, here, listen to the episode. And that's a good starting point. So, There's many reasons why we do this. Many people. Like to take shortcuts, and you've seen this in sales, right? How many people are using bots as an example? And they'll use it and they'll just automate the conversations as if it's a real person talking.

Maybe it's a LinkedIn back and forth exchange, but it's just bot based and you can smell that pretty fast. Or they try to use sequences where they try to, you know, create variables that insert key points about you. So it feels personalized, but quickly you can see it's not. That's the very reason.

For example, why on LinkedIn my name has a microphone character in it. Because when I see my name with a microphone character in it and an email to me, I know it was sent by a bot, which total sidebar, I've mentioned this before, but if you don't know when I do that, I'm breaking their terms of service.

I'm not allowed to do that, but that's my way of contending with bots Also, why you saw total Elon Musk in the purchase of Twitter while he was concerned about bots. Lots of shortcuts or as we like to say, games. And the thing is, people sniff out the games. And when I get those messages, when I realize I'm talking to a bot, I have lost any interest in cog with that person more.

So it's all about trust. When you come to my show or when you're selling to that prospect, we're trying to establish trust that each other can help each other out. And that's the thing. We don't want games. Your buyers don't want games. The My audience doesn't want games. We want conversations. I said to you, This is gonna be a podcast about podcasts.

I've rambled about games versus conversations. So I thought, who is the right guy? Who is the right guy to talk to us about podcasts and sales and marketing and games versus conversations? He's been on the show before. He is, in my opinion. Pretty damn good at what he does. It's annoying to say that because I, I will hear it from him nonstop.

About that time I publicly gave him credit. Non freaking stop. So this is killing me. His name is the one, the only, Casey Cheshire. He is the founder of Ringmaster Conversation Marketing, where he has authentic conversations that create powerful connections. It's all about podcasts with him. Casey, welcome to the show My Friend.

[00:07:44] Casey Cheshire: Hey. I'm so happy to be here.

[00:07:47] Darryl Praill: Be back cuz you're you, You're a repeat. You're a repeat guest. I am a repeat guest. Not a lot of repeat guests, but

[00:07:54] Casey Cheshire: we talked marketing automation last time.

[00:07:56] Darryl Praill: Yes, we did. That's what's about to go there. What's changed is, is you're now onto. A whole new, Well, you're not, you've been doing this for like forever, but since we talked, you've, you've totally specialized and you've got this new company because you've specialize in about, as you say, creating powerful connections with powerful conversations all around.

Podcasting, or as you say it, conversational marketing. Yeah. And by the way, folks, he actually owns the domain and that's why he's really good. I told you he was really good. Like when I heard he actually had, I may have called him a bastard cuz I was professionally jealous as hell and I have no idea how you got it.

How did you get that url? Was it available or did you have to ask?

[00:08:42] Casey Cheshire: It was like $4 on eBay. Actually, I won in a poker game.

[00:08:48] Darryl Praill: That's a dynamite name. It's a dynamite name. So congrats on that one. So talk to us about the, the new company.

[00:08:55] Casey Cheshire: Yeah. Well, here's what's going on, man. Dude, I'm, I'm frustrated. I, I spent decades working in marketing automation, being a, being a marketer, right?

Rising through the ranks. And you know what? Honestly, it's all kind of bullshit, really. Sales too, the, the status quo. It's almost like we're just all d dancing around at the whims of software companies that interject themselves and, and we hide behind the tech instead of just freaking talking to our customers.

I didn't do that for years. Why? Nobody taught me how to do it. Nobody told me I needed to. I was totally fine staring at a number on a marketing automation tool or my crm. And, and looking at some click data, making some assumptions about it and what it meant, and guessing at what the pain points of my customers.

Right. We, we, we, there's many games you mentioned the games we play. The game that I can't stand, the one that we all play right now in marketing is Notice me, right? I'm over here. Notice me? I had a friend who started doing sales for a new startup and he was like, Hey, I, I need to get CIO's attention. I need them to, Get in my sales cycle, Let's go.

And I thought, Oh, okay, let me map this out as a marketer. Well, we gotta get in front of them. We gotta get, and they're not at all events, right? So let's get some events going and some brand, they may not notice us, but we'll get that brand in front of them. It's a long journey. Lots of money. To eventually, hopefully get in front of them.

They're not filling out my landing pages, right? So it's like, okay, there's some work to get their attention that this game I have to play over many moons, lots of spend buying the swag. I could even try ABM and try to send them their favorite socks. But it's a game and it, and while I'm playing this, I'm also playing that don't notice everyone else.

and all the other socks you've gotten in the mail cio, they're like, I don't want any more socks. Stop sending my alma mater socks. They didn't even like the school they went to. Right? So all these things are happening and, and they're getting all these, They don't care. They really don't care. But, but we, it's almost like we act like this is like, I guess what we were taught was what we should do.

So it's what we do and we don't actually talk to the customers. I mean, back in the day, you know, Mad men, they're, they're smoking their cigarettes and. And they're talking to customers and they're taking 'em out to some dinner or whatnot. We don't do that. We hide behind and, and, and so same thing with sales.

Is sales, Are you talking to customers? No, you're talking at customers, right? You're waiting for that perfectly queued up mql, and then you're gonna harass these people. No one's really listening. Marketing used to listen. Right. We'll do that anymore. Well that's cuz we don't have a mechanism for that. And so when I just stumbled across podcasting, because I thought I needed content and yeah, I created content, but the thing that I didn't realize would happen is, holy crap, I would actually learn about the customer for once and I would actually understand.

What they need, what their challenges are, stuff they don't really want to tell me on a sales call. Cause they don't trust me on a sales call. They're gonna tell me on a podcast. So my whole thing now is stop playing this game of notice me. Ooh, In the other game, especially the game of sales plays, get on a call with me.

I don't wanna get on a call with you. I look, I, I didn't want to download your thing and I also don't wanna talk to your person. I also don't wanna buy your thing. Like that's what's happening right now. But, ooh, let me trick you to get on there. Now, I will say, if you do send me some Patagonia, Close, I will get on a call with you, but other than that, you know, shouted to Alice.

But other than that, I don't wanna get on a call, right? But we're trying to trick them to do that. Well, guess what? When you do a podcast, you don't have to play any of those games. And not only will you get their attention, they will notice you, but they'll get on a call with you and after the call, they're gonna be grateful they're gonna pay attention.

Unlike on a lot of these sales calls where they're checking their email during that break. Time that, that they have called your demo, but instead they're actually paying attention. Like, I can't check my email right now cuz we're on a show together. If I check my email, I'm gonna look like a dufus. So I am like with you right now.

And so this kind of focused one oh one conversation. I call this connection casting because this is a certain kind of podcasting where, I mean, you can do anything you want. You could record yourself eating a bag of chips with a microphone, right? That knock yourself out. But this certain thing, I've discovered this kind of one on one interview where you make it all about the other person.

Man, that is magic. And so the, the learnings, the values, they all flow from this. But the, the real key thing ties into a good guy named Dan Sullivan has this phrase where he says, Everyone's competing. To get your attention, no one's competing to give you attention. And so podcasting flips that. It says, Look, I'm gonna shut up.

I wanna ask you a question and I wanna hear what you wanna say. , and I'm just gonna listen. I'm gonna listen. I'm gonna give you attention, and this is the best way to start a relationship. This is the best way to get marketing information. To your point earlier, to understand what the pain actually is from the customer.

It's the best way to actually get them on the first phone call. And guess what? You build a rapport with someone. Low and behold, what happened to me the other. Other day. This is what old people say when things happen. Like two years ago, , Right? What happened the other day was I was talking to this amazing CMO and this was when I had the marketing agency and I was chatting with her.

We had a great podcast and she is a badass leader. I was learning from her and it was fantastic. We got offline and she mentioned, Oh, by the way, We're migrating from Marketo to Pardo, and that's what my last company did. That's like the only thing we did. And so I was like, Holy crap, we can work together.

We can help you with this, this challenge you're gonna have. She's like, Oh, that's cool. Great. All right, let's get our teams talking. We got 'em talking. And was there a sales cycle? No. It was like, let's get our teams together, let's scope it out and let's do this. Right. And that's how it's supposed to be.

That's how it used to be. And so this, a lot of this tech, we let it get in front of us. We lot, a lot of other things get in front of us. We just gotta get out there, talk to our customers, see them as people, facilitate a relationship, a con, a real connection. And if they don't have a pain right away, for sure, they're gonna come to you when they do.

And they're also a great.

[00:14:56] Darryl Praill: Okay, so let's bring this full circle for our audience. You know, the show is inside, Inside Sales. I always like to say, I haven't said it in a long time, It's the only show for sales, buy sales. Let's talk something, but meat potato sales, right? We're not gonna talk vision, we're not gonna talk strategy.

We're gonna talk applicable real time. Implementable, actionable tactics you can use to impact your, your take home pay your closing rate and be the rose's best sales rep closing. That's the pitch. Absolutely. Yep. Totally. That's the pitch. So if you're listening to this Casey's talking podcasts, you use the word marketing multiple times and sales, but sales reps hear marketing, they automatically go, Wait a minute, wait a minute, and we're, I'm lost.

I'm a sales guy. Or a sales. Let me connect the dots for you. He said some incredibly fricking amazing, impressive things that if your mind wasn't on, all the neuros weren't firing. I'm gonna connect the dots. Anybody can be a podcaster. So sales reps, you heard Casey say it's all about getting in front of them.

Getting in front of them, and screw that. They're not multitasked, don't want this. And you always write. You are experiencing that every single day, which is why you listen to shows like mine. Hoping to have some better tactics, strategies to overcome those challenges. And here's the thing is that you can be a podcaster and you can then go interview all of the big accounts that you would love to close, all right?

That fit your ICP and persona. But when you do that, you're talk about the issues they're facing. So your podcast can be on that particular demographic, all right? And you can have more than one podcast, by the way, featuring different demographics. So a hundred percent, if you have. Products or services you sell.

There you go. So you're gonna go get in front of all these people. Now they know who you are. So now when you do this, they're gonna share this with their peers. And all of a sudden, before you know it, lots of people at least have no of you heard of you. So when you do call them or email them, they know who you are and they're way more likely to take the call cuz your reputation precedes you.

Next you're gonna talk to them. You're gonna have all these stories from the podcast. So now when you are prospecting, you can say, Well, I was just talking to Casey Cheshire the other day at Ringmaster Conversational Market. Just I name. I name dropped. Casey's a legend. They know Casey. You were talking to Casey.

Yeah, I know Ringmaster. And he said this, It sounds like you have the same problem. Let me tell you how we, you know, how what Casey did and how we can help you. And so now you have that third party credibility. So, You talk to these people, you build your reputation, you learn from these people, you get the lingo, you get the stories, you name drop.

You develop relationships that you can then lean on to do introductions into other accounts and referrals. And we haven't even talked about Casey me mentioned about content. He was a very passing thing is that he said, Yeah, I did podcast Foreign and it was great for content. And then he went on. Let's back the bus up.

Every single one of those podcasts that you're making can be repurposed. You know, you hear people like Justin Welsh and others talk about hub and spoke. All right? That podcast is the hub, especially if it's a video podcast, you can now repurpose that into blog posts that you're writing into social media posts that you're writing.

You can do little mini, mini clips from it. That can go on reels, that can go on TikTok. All right? That can go so many different places that go on LinkedIn. All right? You can then do an encore presentation after the podcast has gone live to your subscribers or week or two or three later and stream it again maybe on the LinkedIn live.

Or a YouTube. There's so many things you can do to grow your brand and it all comes back to podcasts. And I will share one thing and then I'll go back to Casey and I'll stop talking. , one of the, one of the things I've had people, I've experienced this firsthand numerous, numerous times. You know, I'm a marketer who pretends to be a sales rep.

I'm a pretty good sales rep, but I'm not the world's best sales rep. And I've had people come to me over and over again for sales advice over the years because, you know, I've been a sales leader, I've been a cro. I have a sales podcast. I have a lot of sales content. I speak at sales shows, I do SKUs.

But I still think of myself as a marketer and they'll ask me, Hey, in this situation, how would you handle that sales? You know, how would you deal with that sales objection? Or how would you, you know, get into that sales account and I will say, what you need to do is this. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And they go, Wow, that's incredible.

Thank you. And then in my head, this is what I'm doing. I'm going, Holy shit. If only they knew, I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Because when I said boom, boom, boom, boom. That was me quoting five of my guests in the last year where we talked about that. Exactly. And I'm just, I'm just paraphrasing and, and, and, and repeating what they said.

So this is my point. You, you can be a student, you can be a leader all in the same time. And it all comes back to those authentic conversations. So Case. Here's the question. Every sales person out there is saying, Yeah, but I'm not a podcast host. I can't talk I stammer. How do people. What's the easiest way for them to approach podcasting?

Do they, do they do it themselves? Do they hire or work with somebody? How do they overcome their, their fear? Fear of a camera, fear of talking, fear of stage fright. Like, like what do we do to move from games to conversations and be credible?

[00:20:12] Casey Cheshire: It's a big difference between being a guest on a show and, and hosting a.

And, and you and I are experiencing this now. You've been on my show, I've been on yours. This is great. But there's a big difference, and not, not everyone talks about that. I if, if you don't like public speaking, being on a stage, then guessing on a show is probably not for you just yet. Because as a guest of a show, you're expected to talk a lot.

Maybe not on this show, but typically a, most shows you're . You're asked to talk a lot. Now, if you're the host of a show, the best thing you can do is ask a great question and shut up. Right. And so for those out there, you don't have to be, you know, a game show host to be able to do a podcast. You just need to ask good questions.

And how do you ask good questions? You ask questions you actually wanna know the answer to, which means start with a question you really wanna know the answer to and keep going. I've had some great conversations lately. Jen Allen, yourself, So many great folks in the sales world where, Like you, I don't know as much and, and I'm kind of like a, an amateur when it comes to sales.

I mean, let's be honest, I got a couple million in ACV out there. No, I'm not, I'm not a beginner, but you know, I, I don't necessarily have those objections figured out right off the bat, and so I'll interview these people. And when you keep hearing, Oh, that was a great question. That was a great question.

It's not, Cause I'm good at inventing questions because I'm literally trying to get some free advice right now. Right. So if you think about a, a podcast as an opportunity for you to interview someone who might normally not give you time of day, whether they're customer or a fellow expert in the industry, or a potential partner someone who could just teach you the industry so you have a better way of, of presenting that later consultatively to, to a prospect.

It's, it's your oyster. You can do whatever you want. I once interviewed someone from the Wharton School of Business for an hour and a half me and this professor, and no, I didn't have to pay for Wharton education either. I just, But I got this one on one conversation and he just schooled me for like hour and a half.

It was, It was fantastic and I've certainly cited those conversations later on. So the key thing here is you don't need to be the world's greatest showman. You just need to think about the kind of people you wanna talk to. You've already mentioned you targeting is key. And then once you've got those conversations started, but actually you be surprised.

You, you ask them to come on a show with you. You're so used to people saying no, and they'll all say yes. Everyone says no to a sales call. No one says no to a podcast invite if you make it about them. And they hop on there. And I think one of the things that, that ties in to sales beautifully with this is there's a Zig Zigler quote that I just, I just love.

And first of all, I love his name. I love that he's got two Z's in that. But secondarily, he's got this great quote that if people like you, they'll listen to you, but if they trust you, they'll buy from you. And that can all happen on a podcast because you're asking them great questions, you're listening, you're give.

And then you're also letting them know in advance, Here's some of the questions I'm gonna ask you. It's not a surprise. I'm not trying to trick you. In fact, I want you to look like an rock star on this show. So by doing that, they're gonna really appreciate you said you were gonna ask me this question, and you did ask this question.

That's the foundation of trust saying you're gonna do something and doing it right. And this all happens on a podcast.

[00:23:20] Darryl Praill: So there's a couple things. This is gonna make this really easy for you folks. You really need to think about this. We're trying to help you grow your reach and your influence and your connection rates and your content and your street cred and your storytelling and everything else.

And here's, I'll put it in sales terms. You know what a, based on what Casey just said, do you know what a podcast is? A podcast thought of differently is what you do every day when you do disco. What you discovery? Yeah, that's what it is. It is. What's the issue? Now there's, so we have this pain point.

What's the issue? Well, why? Why is that an issue? How does that impact you? You know, what have you tried so far? Only the difference is, is often it's got a happy ending because they overcame the issue. All right. So how did you overcome it? Where the lessons learned? If I was listening to this now, and I'm in your situation, where do I start?

What are the first steps, you know, what should I expect to pay for that? What are the experts I need, you know, what are the skillset I need to develop? Personally, it's disco. That's all a podcast is, is disco. Now I'll go one step further. Casey talked about, you know, you can give 'em in advance the questions gonna ask them.

And then they, they feel your guests feel comfortable because they, they know they're going in. They're not gonna get blindsided, and they can speak intelligently because they've had five minutes to think about what they're gonna say.

What I do. Is I work with my guests and you know, when I have a topic in mind and I work with them to say, you know, is this a good topic? Let's refine it. Something that maybe I had this initial idea that you had that idea, whatever it might be. But we come with a topic and then we agree on three to five.

Talking points, bullets. Just, I, I don't even give questions. Now a lot of people do give questions. I'm gonna ask you the following questions. I was on a, a show the other day where I was a guest and they said, We have three segments. Segment one, segment two, segment C. Each segment's gonna be 10 minutes long, and in those segments I'm gonna ask you these following questions.

So, okay. That's cool. And then we ha the conversation sounds dynamic and live and natural, but it is pseudos scripted. I'm a little less formal because I like to be able to have. Go off in tangents and completely see where the conversation takes us, because I'm gonna treat it like disco. And I'm gonna say, why?

Because often, See, here's the funny part, Casey said, If you're afraid of public speaking, you know, and that's a consideration. But the trick is to ask a powerful question and then shut up. Well, that's disco. You know, you do it wrong. When, when you follow the script and you ask question, question, question, they give you answers and you never do a follow on question.

And what does your sales manager say to you? Your sales manager says to you, Shut up. Ask the question and shut up. And let them go and go, and go, and go and go. And then when they, they're gonna voluntarily give you stuff way more than you expect it. And then you can drill down. Tell me more about this.

Tell me more about. . A podcast is disco. You do this every single day. Your challenge is getting conversations. Your challenge is storytelling. Your challenge is be incredible. Your challenge is being trusted. Your challenge is making sure they're not multitasking. All of this goes away with the podcast.

Like he says, authentic conversations create powerful connections by friend. You did not answer me. Where do I start? How do I start? Do I start? Do I do it alone? Do I not do it alone? Clearly ringmaster, I'm gonna assume could help me if I wanted to use ringmaster. Tell me more about ringmaster. I've given you five questions or more.

[00:26:54] Casey Cheshire: Go. All right, no matter what, you need to do it, you need to do this thing. And, and it's as simple as grabbing a $60 mic off of Amazon. And hooking up to that Zoom account. Use anyways for, for all your other calls and just hitting record. Now, Ringmaster, we are completely done for you B2B podcast production, right?

So this means you're doing nothing but showing up to a prep call, aka discovery call number one, and then showing up for the show itself, aka discovery call number two, which is an hour, right? Half hour prep and then a full hour show. And then. a way you go with that relationship, right? So all that happens for you is that you look in your calendar and these meetings start popping up cuz we're actually gonna go book them for you, like your own sdr, personal SDR team.

We're gonna book these whales on there for you. And then you just sit back, relax, have those great conversations, build rapport like you do, and, and make those relationships shine. Close some deals, right? So that's our service. You can go that route, but you can go as simple. that mic, plug it into your laptop and go to town on Zoom.

And then you know what? You throw that bad boy on YouTube, You have your own YouTube channel. Now with us, we're gonna get you on Spotify, iTunes, we're gonna fully edit it and all that stuff. But you don't even need that necessarily if, if you want to just go and just try it and just see what happens with some of these conversations.

Record a little conversation with a customer as long as they're aware of it, right? Or, or prospect. And then throw that bad boy on. And then a away you go, and now you've got a channel. Now you've got a show that's as simple as that, and then you can always take it to the next level, take it to the next level.

But there's options for you. So you can go that full on production route where you've got your own personal PDR team just booking you whale calls. Now this stuff can get expensive though. So the important thing is you're not spending this on that, that sea level tiny little company that you might wanna just wanna close to help you with that.

That ACV quota? No, no, no. These are for the whales. The ones that will, they might even just make your whole quarter. Right? These are the deals that this is like a, this is like a sniper rifle. This is a, this is a, a bone arrow and an archery competition, right? And so you, you pick these targets carefully and then you let it fly.

All the other games we're talking about that, that's like the, the rapid fire stuff. That's, that's fine to sort of pad the bottom line with small deals, but for the big deals, for the whales, you wanna close, that's where the podcast comes in.

[00:29:22] Darryl Praill: What's the biggest bullshit excuse you've ever heard to not start a podcast?

[00:29:27] Casey Cheshire: I don't have time. I don't have time. Okay. And you do have time because you're doing these calls anyway. Now, now with us booking everything and doing everything for you, it, it makes it so that the only thing you literally have to do is show up for a prep and show up for the show. We're actually gonna do some research for you on the guest.

See what? We don't have to research them. You don't have to read their book. You don't have to do anything. You just literally show up, pull up our research, and go to town on a prep call. Then you don't even think about it again until you do the show. And you do the show. You pull up that same research we did for you has a script on there and we help you create what the show's gonna be.

Even so you don't have to come up with what does this look like? We have a pattern of the shows that build the best relationships and we place that template down and and help you build a show that works specifically for your buyer.

[00:30:14] Darryl Praill: So we don't have time. I agree. That's a massive one. That's probably the number one.

The other one, I hear this, this is the one two punch. I don't have the relationships or the connections to get guests. And so, and I hear this for example, of my team all the time, whether it's doing a podcast or doing a webinar or doing a live stream, I've heard this from all my my employees across the globe.

Every region that I hear this, the two, the 2 1 2 punch. And I use an example just to show them. So on my podcast, this one here the other day, I to prove a point, I reached out and I invited. I invited, I was multitasking. Don't tell people I work with. While I was in a meeting, I invited 13 other people to appear on the show and I invited eight of those on LinkedIn, five of those on Twitter.

So no direct messages, no emails. I didn't have their email accounts. Of that 13 four, I was not connected. So I had to do a connection request. Hey, let's get connected. And by the way, will you, can you be in my show? Four I was connected with but had never talked to, We were just industry colleagues, if you will, first connections.

And there was no previous history of a, of a, a conversation and within an hour and a half, I had 13 sentences. Now that's unusually high. But the point being is I was targeted. What Casey just said, they do all the legwork grunt work for you. I had to do that myself manually. So if you don't have time, that's another feature of using someone like Casey.

The other point is, is they've got the formula down pat to convince these people. And the other thing is, is once Casey's gone to them once to be on one show, he's gonna come back to them to be on another. And that, that he's producing and they know Casey. So they trust him and they feel good about him. So they may not, that's a wildcard benefit he has over doing it yourself.

Right. Cause they don't, they may not know you yet. Now how did I get 13 responses in an hour and a half? Cuz that's, that's what people always see to me. Yeah, but I'm not you, Darrell. Well, I wasn't me either. Because I built up a reputation and time, a reputation for good content over time. Then the reputation got out there.

So maybe in the first days I would've got a 50% acceptance rate again. It is that high. Whereas now I can get a hundred percent. So time and connections, that's an excuse. And bringing it full circle, I would suggest that's a game. You're playing with yourself, ladies and gentlemen. This is my good friend, Casey Cheshire.

He is the founder of Ringmaster or can we get it right? Ringmaster Conversational Marketing, but I just call it Ringmaster. You can find Best way, I'm assuming my friend. Is it to go to you on LinkedIn?

[00:32:55] Casey Cheshire: Yep. LinkedIn or hit us up the website. We got chat right on there. Have a convers. Let's talk.

[00:33:00] Darryl Praill: LinkedIn. It's just with a C Cheshire, just like the Cheshire cat, and he is one cool cat. I've had fun today, folks, at different topic. I told you it's gonna be a little bit meta, a podcast, a bell podcast, but we brought it all back. To, hopefully you'll understand. It is content, it's relationships, it's authentic conversations.

It is, you're attacking your beachhead, you're getting those stories, you're doing discovery, and then you are actually able to do prospecting and consequently get a lot of referrals and inbound traffic, all because of the prospect. I had fun. That's Casey. I'm Daryl. We're done. It'll be happening all over again next week.

In the meantime, folks, be safe, be happy. Go enjoy the weather. Kick ass close out your week, month, and eventually quarter. All because you learned it all here and you applied it because that's what we sales reps do. We take risks, we learn, we experiment every single week. I love your brothers and sisters.

Take your talk to you soon. Bye bye.

This episode was digitally transcribed.

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