INSIDE Inside Sales

It's Time To Do The Work

September 5, 2022

INSIDE Inside Sales

Tune in to INSIDE Inside Sales with Darryl Praill for actionable strategies and tactics from top sales experts to increase your sales development success. Darryl has unscripted conversations with the leading sales experts, from veteran sales pros to the newest rising stars. If you’re looking for lively debate, spirited conversations, and proven sales know-how, you’ve come to the right podcast.

The sales skills equivalent of hill-spints, this episode hits hard. But it will get you where you need to go faster.

Join Darryl and guest Ken Lundin, President @ RevHeat, to find out if your belief systems are holding you back. They to examine whether love trumps respect, why 'why' matters more than 'what,' when you need to get moving on self-awareness, the quickest place to get your self-sabotage temp check, and why imposter syndrome is a good sign.


Find Ken on LinkedIn, on Twitter, at the RevHeat website, at, or via email.

Connect with Darryl on LinkedIn.


Are you in sales, but you're not using a sales engagement tool? Then you're probably losing out on revenue because you are not engaging with prospects at the right time, with the right cadence, and with enough persistency. You need VanillaSoft.

INSIDE Inside Sales is now a member of the Sales IQ Network. Say goodbye to missing your quota, with our Create Pipeline Course.

Darryl Praill
Host @ INSIDE Inside Sales Podcast + CMO @ AgoraPulse
Ken Lundin
President @ RevHeat

[00:00:00] Darryl Praill: My name is Darryl Praill. I'm your host and you, my friend, well, you and I we're gonna go on a journey every single week, talking to the industry's most accomplished sales legends, as they share with us, their tips, their tricks, their techniques, and their tactics to becomes sales rockstars. You simply need to do what they're doing and you will achieve similar nirvana. If you like to laugh, you like to be entertained, if you'd like to go off on tangents and tell stories, you're going to love what you're going to hear next. Sit back, relax, it's going to get real.

It's another, another week in the quarter, another quarter in the half, another half in the year. Wasn't too long ago. Was it, have you been listening regularly that we were talking about what are you gonna do in your second half? Are you ready? What did you learn from Q2 now? We're in Q3 now. We're in seriously in Q3.

Oh my goodness. It's It's probably a good time, candidly, to sit back and, and reassess where you do it. Are you having success? Are you happy with your progress? And cuz Lord knows. If you're listening to this show, you've got all the tools you will ever need. All because of the inside inside sales show, he says completely selfishly.

One of the things that I remembered years ago that was shared with me, When I was, you know, carrying my bag and I've heard it shared by others since is how I approach sales. And in those days, for me, it was very much a call reluctance thing. For me, speaking personally is, is a byproduct for lack of a better word.

It's a byproduct of, of who we are as people. What we value what we cherish, what we believe, what we discern to be right and wrong, good and bad. Our morals, our ethics, our integrity, all of this, we know defines us, but you may not realize that some of this negatively impacts us, even though it seems a good thing.

So lemme give you an. And if you've heard this before, just, you know, jump forward a minute or two in, in the show. My mom and my dad taught me several things. When I was very young, they taught me that you look a person in the eyes when you meet with them, they taught me that you shake a hand and you'll just shake a hand, like a length fish.

You shake a hand, you make a statement, right? You are, you are conveying confidence. They taught me not to interrupt. They taught me never interrupt. They taught me to show respect and manners. And when I didn't do any of that, then I was chastised and nurtured depending on the day and the mood and how hungry they were.

And it it's funny because when I had my kids, I did the exact same. I, they would shake hands and I would like, that's not a handshake. Do it again. And they would cry and I would say, suck it up life. Isn't fair. I was the nurturing father, as you can tell. And but these are the things that affect me.

So how does that come into play? It comes into play because now when I'm on the phone and I'm having to dial for dollars, I don't want to do it cuz you know why I'm interrupting them. I was taught not to interrupt them. And so if I get them on the phone, now I'm even more aware that I'm in interruption.

I can hear it in their voice. And then I, I, I, I have performance issues. I can't say anything I STAM or I stumble. I fall back on awful scripts, because for some reason I know those better. Despite just listening to the latest piece of training from the rock, stars that out there telling us what to do, my beliefs, you know, was ingrained in me, was impacting me cuz I was interrupting them now fast forward many years, I am now.

Some would say much older. I have the white hair to prove it. And recently when I went from vanilla soft to a Agora, Pultz when I went from the CRO road to the CMO job my old team, you know, I was doing exit interviews. I was saying, saying my one on ones. And I was saying, you know, this is what I would do if every you, any final words of wisdom you want from me, all that kind of.

And I had one of my reps ask me and they said, Darryl, you build great teams. And it was a compliment. I was very grateful for him. And they said, what? Why? Like, how is it, you know, people like, how can you read them? And I'm like, dude, that's just a, is years of experience B that's, I'm a parent. And I have raised kids and every single kid is different and you learn to adapt and I've had bosses and I've had teachers and I've had volunteer coaches and I've had to be the good shepherd that works with all those people.

And I had to adapt to them. So. what that means is I learned pretty quickly to see that that young woman was clearly in the company of an overpowering father. Then that man was in the presence of somebody who didn't value him, or he didn't hear, he didn't feel heard, or he was insecure because every time he raised his voice expressed an opinion, he was shot down.

And I said, when you understand these people, then you can go to them and you can actually. I know you're weak here. Let's work around that. Cuz those, those, that baggage that you pick up as a, as an individual and we all have it and you know, it is you listen to me cuz you know, as I talk to you, you know what that baggage is that you yourself experiencing right now, it affects our ability to be peak performers.

It affects our ability to achieve our goals. Set another way, the things we believe to be true, the things that we've experienced, we, they impact us because we're often trying to avoid it, or we're projecting that onto our prospects or onto our bosses or onto our peers. And for whatever reasons we have, it's holding us back.

So it's a head thing and we all have it. That's why the therapist makes so much money, cuz we're a messed up. We're messed up.

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[00:06:38] Darryl Praill: So who's really good at this stuff. Who's pretty good at stuff. This stuff. Well, if you follow me a lot, especially on Twitter, but LinkedIn too, there's this cat that I go back and forth and we finish each other's sentences all the time.

And I have been such a fanboy of his for so long. And I've been meeting at him on the show. And I finally made a point of doing it. So if you've not heard of him, I don't know where you've been. You're in the woods, you're in the darkness, but you need to go check him out. His name is Ken Lundin you can check him out at

You can also go to LinkedIn. Of course. And it is kglundin, L U N D I N. Ha. If you want to, he's even got his own damn website. The marketer to me loves this man. branding 1 0 1 of my friends. Ken of Mr. RevHeat himself. Welcome to the show, my friend.

[00:07:30] Ken Lundin: Oh, I am that opening was fantastic and I am so fired up to be here.

You and I, I am also an ultimate fanboy of Darryl. So if we don't just gush over each other, the entire, you know, the entire session here I think there might be some stuff that some sales people are gonna be uncomfortable with, but I think looking in the mirror they're. geez. That's what it is. So I'm super fired up.

[00:07:53] Darryl Praill: All right. So let's just start with it. I gave you the opening now, you know, folks for full clarity. What we're talking about today is something that Ken is incredibly qualified, skilled, able to help you with. This is something that he does as part of his whole, you know, all the services that he provides.

And that is about belief systems. Belief systems and how they're impact to you. Now I've set the stage. Now, Ken is about to actually probably correct me in a few things I said, or affirm me in a few things I said, and and we'll go from there. So Ken belief systems, how close was I to defining them?

How would you define them? And let's talk and then let's, let's use some real life examples about how they're holding us back.

[00:08:33] Ken Lundin: Yeah, I mean, it was so good. I'm gonna leave I'll. No. So it was it, but the truth. I mean, it's unbelievable how we do this. In sales management, sales, leadership, sales people. How we think we can disconnect the individual and the individual's values and beliefs from the things that we're asking them to do.

You talked, and it was UN it was awesome that you opened with the idea of the, the ideas that your parents had taught. And so that's a supportive belief system, you know, what are some of the other things people have heard? How many, so Darryl, I'll ask you now. Now I gotcha. how many bids should you get for any project?

I'm gonna get at least three. Well, it's usually three. And which one do you pick? The cheapest. Okay. Well you go cheapest. Most, some people go middle, but because you said that, think about how you are gonna work on if your clients or your prospects, right. my pro my prospects are like, Hey, I want to go look at other bids.

You're like, internally, you're going cool. Cuz I always take other bids. You know, you're you're going, the prospect's going. You guys are the Mo too. Oh, well, that makes perfect sense to me because I always want the cheapest option. And so think about the behaviors. If I'm in sales and I'm in a moment with a prospect and they're like, Hey, I wanna go look at other stuff.

Okay. Well, when are you gonna call me back? Yeah. Instead of Hey, Darryl. Well, that's interesting that you'd say that. Tell me a little bit more about why you think it's necessary to go look at other stuff. It stops you in your tracks. So, yeah, I think that's a good start. I mean, the support of belief systems, that's just one of what we look at is six of them on whether or not you can actually execute from a sales perspective.

[00:10:19] Darryl Praill: So I just wanna interrupt here. Did you guys just see what Ken just did to me? He totally psychoanalyze me the matter of seconds. and that's why I'm giggling because right away, as soon as he said that I started in my, I don't know about you in my mind. I'm like, So why did I want the cheap one? What about me?

And my background makes me go to the cheap one. I know what it is because I grew up with not a lot of money and so clearly we had to save money. So it has to be the cheap one. So, and I'm loving that because guys, as you all know, these shows are completely unscripted, so you're watching it in action.

And so if I, if he was able to, to figure me out that fast with some simple questions, Take what we can do for you. so let's go explore. You said there's six, six aspects. Do we wanna look at all six? Do you wanna look at some of them? Like where do, what direction do you wanna go in here, sir?

[00:11:07] Ken Lundin: Yeah, let's look at, look at two or three and we'll see what happens and because we can, the interesting thing about your belief systems is this it's very simple.

Okay. Your belief systems and me figuring out what they are. I can predict how you'll behave in a sales process in a sales call. Think about that. Like, it's that powerful? That I can predict it. So let's start with one of 'em. So one of them is, do you have the need for approval and that's messaged like this.

Would you rather be liked or in some cases loved by your prospects than respected. So what do you think happens in that environment? Darryl? I'd rather be liked or loved. What are things I will or won't necessarily maybe do in a sales call if I've got that type of personality?

[00:11:56] Darryl Praill: Well, if you'd rather be liked or lo I mean, if I answer, I understand the question, right?

You said, I don't wanna be liked or loved, or do I wanna be respected? You're going, your behaviors are gonna favor your, your bias. And I'm not sure if this is an appropriate time to share, but one of the questions. So my wife and I on a total sidebar, but, you know, belief systems affect not only your ability to sell it affects your ability to have a relationship.

And so we periodically it, maybe three, four or five years, we go to the marriage courses, think of it as preventive maintenance, and it's a day away and you have some fun and then you. You you work on your communication. And one of the things this instructor said to us one time was what's the difference between being loved and being respected.

And they made a general general statement. And, and again, this is, this is marriage guy. So it doesn't mind saying this is for sales, but they made a statement of women. Predominantly wanna be loved in a relationship. Men predominantly wanna be respected in a relationship. So if you were to go to a man, and if a, if my wife came to me and said, I don't love you, that would bother me.

If my wife came to me and said, I don't respect you, that would crush me. I will behave to earn her respect. So little segue, little tangent. Am I, am I just talking to myself here at Ken or does this support where you're going?

[00:13:11] Ken Lundin: It's a tangent and it may or may not. So so here's what it's so go for it.

It's okay. This why it's unscripted. If you have a need to be liked or loved. So think about it this way. Instead of respected. I I'm, I'm not okay if somebody doesn't approve of. I'm not gonna, what do you think I'm gonna do about pricing? I'm gonna give 'em the best price, because I don't want 'em to think the best price ever.

Not like me because of pricing. I'm probably not gonna ask the really important questions that might need to be asked. Right. Because I don't wanna put them off. I may say things like this. I may say to people, well, I would never ask that question. Well, why not? Cause I don't wanna upset the prospect. So if you've ever, if you're listening and you're in sales and you've ever said.

Think about it for a second. Holy cow. Because the other thing that the sales industry has done wrong is we've manifested this ridiculous notion that people buy. That's not ridiculous, but that they buy from people they know like, and trust the truth is like, is the worst word to use in that case? Because the way that has gone, it should be no respect and trust because I've gotta respect you value my time and your time.

So yeah, the need for approval will, you can see how it might manifest those outcomes. If man, I don't want Darryl to be upset with me. It's gonna lead to a lot of weakness.

[00:14:29] Darryl Praill: So. If you're a sales manager, listening to this conversation, do you have a sales rep in your team right now? You've been trying to train and train and train to ask those hard questions and they're not doing it, but they nod their head to you because ironically, they want your approval too.

All right. So, you know, they know it and they're still not doing it. I'll give you a different example. It's not an approval thing, but it's a behavioral thing which ties in which I've been all over our reps. You gotta be busy and social, you gotta, it's just, it sets channel. You gotta work. And they won't do it because they think it makes them look that they're vain.

Right? So they're insecure in that front and that's what it comes down to. They don't understand that that's the modern way of, of doing business and its community and its trust and its relationships and everything else. So both of those situations are affecting your rep success, even though you've coached them.

Which means you need to approach differently how you coach them, because you need to address the root cost, which is the belief system that their need for approval as Ken is getting at here.

[00:15:21] Ken Lundin: Yeah. It's the supportive beliefs. Yeah. It's, they've heard from somebody and the way that they've come up, that if you have a large social following, then it's a vanity metric.

They've heard that those people are arrogant. They've heard all the negative things. So you have that supportive beliefs and the need for approval. And so what's interesting about this is let's apply it to the real world. So social selling skills, something we measure when we do our evaluations on companies, right?

So the social selling skills, they may have all the skill sets and competencies in the world, but if their core belief system beliefs, it's vanity and beliefs, it makes them look arrogant and they have a need for approval. They don't want somebody to think negatively of them. Think about how those belief systems can.

Trump. All the sales competencies that you've been dealing with. So that's one of the reasons why you really have to kind of get inside. We always talk about the head trash people bring, but you gotta be able to get inside. Somebody's mind to understand the why you can tell me what all day you can tell me they won't do this.

You can tell me they are good at this, but can you tell me why? Because the why is how you make change in behaviors.

[00:16:32] Darryl Praill: Okay. So. How does, and I know we've got more, we're gonna cover two or three. We've got this, our first one need for approval. Oh, that's fine. But my question is and maybe now it's not the right mess.

So if you wanna get to this later on, let me know. How do I, as a rep for lack of a better word, self diagnose so that I can say yes, you know what I do? I think I do. Approval. And now that you mentioned it, I can see how that told me back from asking those hard questions.

[00:16:58] Ken Lundin: Yeah, I think so. It's just that it's understanding the predictive outcomes.

So I'll give you a couple of 'em. So one is am I not doing things that my managers and bosses have told me that are moral, ethical and legal okay. Let's just make sure we classify. Am I not doing things? My manager or my management staff wants me to do they're moral, ethical and legal, because it makes me uncomfortable even though.

I probably like logically can say, that's a good, that's something I should be doing. Right. And so the first thing is awareness, cuz the hard part about the belief systems is it's harder to change than it is to teach a skills comp a skill competency. And so as a rep, we want, you want to think about the why you won't do things like people have taught you how to objection, handle.

and if they've taught you how to handle objections, but you can't ask a question because you feel like it's invasive or hard to get clarification. There's some belief systems going on. If you allow, like we talked, actually I've talked about two of 'em doesn't need approval and supportive beliefs. The third one is three of them is the supportive BI cycle.

Like how you go about buying. And it's what I got Darryl on early. How you go about buying? Like I need to price shop and I need to get this and I need to get. that translates to, I will take think it overs and put people putting me off. And I've probably, if I'm a salesperson, my potential runway of pipeline, how long I have people in the pipeline, my probably close rate is, is longer.

So somebody in our, my, we might have a 90 day close rate. Mine might be one 20. I might also have less certainty when my manager's talking to me and they're walking me through my deals. I might be the one kinda like, huh. Yeah. Well, you know, Johnny said, he's gonna close. Right. And so if you find yourself in any of those environments and you gotta be honest with yourself where you're like, you're when they ha, when your manager asks you the hard questions, you're like making up some story, you know, those are the things that tell you, Hey, there's some beliefs they're getting away of what you could do to be fantastic.

And the great news. If you have the desire, the commitment and you're coachable, your upside is through the roof. So those are the cool things about it.

[00:19:09] Darryl Praill: There are, so I you're giving me so many soundbites and I'm writing like a, a theme here cause I wanna come back to them. You know? So what we talked about, we talked about the, know the like, and the trust.

I understand the why, the desire, the commitment, and you're coachable, but a lot of this, you know, I'm a simple. Folks. I mean, you, you know that already,

[00:19:28] Ken Lundin: It's becoming more apparent. The longer we talked about ,

[00:19:32] Darryl Praill: This is why I like. He just calls it as it is. You're you're stupid. One of the things that I've always hammering you on is how self-aware are you of, of your own strengths and weaknesses and, and what do you value more your ego or your commission check?

And by the way, commission checks aren't necessarily bad. It's not a sign of greed, but if you value your ego more, your pride, your vanity, whatever you, your reputation, whatever you wanna call it, you will that you. That's gonna hold you back from that commission check, right? It's it's a different way of getting at exactly what Ken's talking about here.

Do you have the need for approval? So if you're not self aware, this whole episode is gonna be a waste of your time. So let me ask you that based on that, maybe I'm not self self-aware and it's not, it's not a, an ignorant self-aware, I'm just not self-aware would. I be wise to go to a colleague or a boss and ask this, or am I better off to utilize someone like yourself and invest in my own success by having you make me aware of this? Like what are my options here?

[00:20:41] Ken Lundin: Yeah, that's a good question. I think you can talk to people in your office, but this will be interesting unless you, first of all, here's the best way to do it. Make them listen to the show. So they have context and then say, do I exhibit any of those behaviors they spoke about in my sales process?

Just that it's a quick, like, easy didn't cost, anyone, anything except you got to laugh a little bit cuz Dar and I, I think, I think we're hysterical. You may not, but that's a totally different, totally different gig. But bring them in and listen to this for context, because if you take put offs, if you have trouble asking questions because you can't stay in the moment and be present, you have some stuff going on.

The awesome part about that is that skills competencies and that kind of stuff, you know, the way we work and the reason why this is so, you know, kind of prevalent in what we do is we take more of a medical approach to how we work with sales organizations. And what I mean by that is, you know, you say you walk into a doctor's office and literally you're in there for 30 seconds.

You haven't said hello, and they start writing out a script, right. They're writing you a pres. And you haven't told 'em if you have a hangnail or cancer, it's malpractice. okay. It's not a good thing. And somehow the sales consulting and training industry has gotten to this point where they go, Hey, Darryl, what you need done, buddy?

You want some skills based stuff. You, you, we can teach you value over price and we can teach you a little closing skills. And then they come in and they do a one day event and they're gone. And 77% of what they learned in the day forgets. And that's called the Effingham forgetting. so what we do is we actually take a holistic approach where we say, Hey, we, the only way we engage with clients is by evaluating the sales force and the sales organization as a whole, in order to pick out, do you have DNA problems?

What are your competency stuff? How does your infrastructure and process look? So that's kind of why our, we go this way is cuz we're really trying to figure out how to make a massive out and a massive kind of outcome for our clients. As opposed to kind of working one on one. listening to this show and doing what you, you know, and then asking people, Hey, do I, do I do.

it's a fantastic way for an individual sales rep to figure it out.

[00:22:49] Darryl Praill: One of the things I'll share it's not a sales thing, but it it's related, which is my last two jobs, this current job, and my last job as part of the interview process, I had to go through for lack of a better word, you know, I'll call it a psych eval, call a personality test, call it whichever you want to.

I'm not the doctor. If you get the idea and that stressed me out. So as, as Ken and I here talking about, ask your colleagues, ask your bosses, you know, engage with the professional, like Ken at RevHeat that may intimidate you. And cuz it intimidated me, you know, intimidating for a number of reasons.

What if they realized that I was just opposer cuz Hey, I do have imposter syndrome. I have no problem admitting that. What if they find out some deep, dark secrets that even I may not be aware of, but it'll come out or I might imply that I have them, even though I don't think I do, but whatever. And so I stressed hard about doing that and I was trying to avoid it as much as possible.

And it wasn't until the current CEO, we were in the recruiting process. He really needed to get the results back before I had the far more paperwork and of the test. And I'm like, so just so I understand, you know, I said, is there an outcome that you're anticipating from these results where they assess me and all of my tendencies that could cause me to lose this job.

And his response was brilliant. And that's the one I want, I want you to think about this. His response was Darryl. The job is your. You've already got the job. He goes, what this is gonna tell me is your tendencies. You know, your, what you've got historically your belief systems. And he goes, so now I know how to manage you.

You've got the job. This is, you're not losing the job. And all of a sudden how I approached that test and the results shift it 180 and then I was excited to get the results. And I was excited to grow as a person in my craft. So. That's my way of sharing a personal story to say, this is actually a really good thing, guys, you should invest in this kind of assessment whether it's for yourself or you're a leader for your team.

I love that. Okay. So we talked about the need for approval. Is there something else you wanna drill down on as it relates to the belief system?

[00:24:51] Ken Lundin: Well, the first thing is if you have imposter syndrome, know that generally makes you not an imposter because imposters don't. They can't have imposter since they have imposter, since , that's,

[00:25:02] Darryl Praill: It's funny, I don't really, I remember saying to my, my boss, so, and this relates to quota cuz but I'm new, right? So I'm the new guy in, you gotta, you have the honeymoon period. And he said to me one a little, not too long ago, how's it going? My response, which is no different than saying how you doing on a 10 year quota?

And my response was it's going well, but I feel like I'm like three to four weeks behind schedule. Right. And his response was. All the good ones. Always think they're behind schedule. Yeah. And so it's a very similar statement to what you're saying. So that makes me feel good. I, so now, so what I think Ken just said is I'm just insecure.

[00:25:37] Ken Lundin: That might have been it. That might have been it. Yeah. There's not, I don't know that we have to like drilling down on a specific one. I think the idea becoming aware of how the stuff you're bringing to the party matters. You know, if you are somebody who price shops all the time and you go into most deals, thinking price will be a problem.

It becomes a problem. Right. You, these are self-fulfilling prophecies. To some extent you think a customer's gonna think you're like too expensive. That usually happens at the lower end of your market, right? Because, oh, well you normally sell fortune 1000. This one's only got 250 million, so they can't spend 20 grand.

You know, if you think those things are gonna happen because, and the reason we talk about this is cuz look, you know, we train on all the sales, sales competencies, and we consult on all infrastructure stuff. But we don't do it in absence of the idea of what your belief system looks like. It takes the longest to change.

So if you wanna be self-aware do it early, cuz that's super important cuz you know, I know my stuff as an example, I it's interesting. I don't test as somebody who has the need for approval. On the other hand, I catch myself doing behaviors at certain times where I call myself out, you know, instead of answering the question like I'll, you know, I'll do the.

are you always somebody? What self what is it self deprecating. If you're making self deprecating comments in times of tension, there's something going on there about, Hey, I'm not gonna be able to have a real conversation with people and all this comes back to one real simple concept. Sales is simply mastering the art of communication and the best communicators.

Get the best deal. And so if you're bringing stuff between your ears, that is inhibiting your ability to actually execute and become a fantastic communicator, it's worth money to be okay with saying to yourself, what if I was better at this? Would I be better in my job?

[00:27:30] Darryl Praill: Okay. Guys and gals, as you listen to that, I mean, I don't know about you.

My mind is whirling because I'm already going in lots of directions. Okay. So here's where my mind goes. As I listen to Ken, I'm like, okay, so. Let's look at my sales challenges. All right. So I like to jump into demo and I don't like to spend a lot of time doing discovery. I don't like to multi-thread an account.

Mostly because I'm scared of talking to the other, the personas, you know, head of finance, for example, economic buyer. Because I think I'm gonna interrupt a day or I don't understand them or they're gonna shoot me down. I don't wanna get, I don't wanna know. I suck at negotiating and I try to avoid it as much as possible.

I don't ask for the annual commit. I'm fine. With the monthly commit. I don't ask for the. I could go on, but I'm just thinking about some of my constant bad behaviors that I personally have to be very intentional about because my comfort zone is not to do what I just shared. Yeah. A lot of that as I listen to Ken, I can totally see how my own belief systems are holding me back.

Are completely holding me back. Is that, am I connecting the wrong dots here? Or am I connecting the right dots, Ken?

[00:28:41] Ken Lundin: Oh, no, you you're saying it perfectly. Cuz that's how, that's how it comes through in the sales process. What are you willing to do or won't do, what are the things that make you uncomfortable?

You know, because that's, it's not, and most of the time, just so here's the other question. You're not doing them cuz you're uncomfortable, but do you know how to do it right? Because if you know how to do it. and you're not doing it. There's something else going on. Okay. So yeah, I think Dar you correct connected it perfectly.

I mean, that's, it's, you know, let's look at it this way. Such a low percentage of sales people actually make quote every year that you know, that number is gonna continue to be a bad one for the foreseeable future, particularly because we have, if you have sales DNA problems that are keeping you from actually executing on your skills, And we go into an environment where the dollar is harder to get, because we're in an inflationary environment with a potential recession heading, you will have to be better at your craft to make the same money.

So why, why do we get passionate about this stuff? We get passionate about this stuff because we're trying to protect you and your families, and we're trying to help change

[00:29:46] Darryl Praill: lives. I think the most profound mind that you've given me today beyond making apparent that I'm cheap is that if I know how to do it, and I'm not doing it.

Then there's, there's something going on. Yeah. So I ask everybody listening. Is there something that you know how to do that? You're not doing it? So the question is why can honestly, Tell me about RevHeat, because right about now, if the listeners are like me, I'm my mind is always worrying, going, okay, I gotta go to their website.

I gotta find more information about the belief systems. I gotta see if Ken can help me. I can help my team. I need to teach myself more about this. I need to overcome this. And I know we've, we've touched on one thing that RevHeat does you do a lot more? So tell us, talk to us about RevHeat.

[00:30:33] Ken Lundin: Yeah, the, the, you know, the, the less than two minute version goes like this, we tend to look at sales orgs holistically through our revenue acceleration program.

RevHeat works with B2B companies that are traditionally somewhere between, you know, probably 20 or 30 million all the way up to, we have clients that are billion and a half bucks. So that's kind of our client base. And with that, when we look at this revenue acceleration roadmap for them, we're really looking at three things, infrastructure and process people and skills and training and develop.

To create a holistic sales org that can be world class in under 12 months. And so that's how we gonna go through that process. You know, when we think about it, we are an outcome based firm. You know, what we do with our clients is we tell 'em how much money they're leaving on the table because of the current state of where the sales force is.

We show 'em exactly how much upside. So if you're a rep looking at this. We'd give you a report and it would say you have a hundred, 6% upside in the next 24 months. If you'll actually get better at these skill sets, if you'll get better, if you'll change your belief systems. So we are absolutely outcome based.

And to show you the truth, the, the proofs in the pudding not only do we do an evaluation to start, but we also actually do that same evaluation nine to 12 months later to figure out where the impact. And so it's just a different way that we've looked at it. Cause I've, you know, been in the industry a while and used to do all the just sales, coaching training stuff.

And it always got to me that we're one of the few industries that doesn't intentionally try to tie ROI to spend. So we work with executive teams to figure out where are the holes how do you fix them and how do you make sure that they stay fixed for the long term?

[00:32:02] Darryl Praill: So there's a couple things that reached out react that when Kim was talking that I was reacting to in my mind, You know, a former fee VP sales, a former COO, a current CMO.

It's all. Cause it's all revenue. It's all revenue. Ken was communicating very different. Did you notice that guys, the words he used He was very intentional with his lack, better, his hot buttons, you know, that's music to my ears as an executive. You know, when I hear Ken say, you know, we focus on outcomes.

I'm like, oh, for fudge sakes. Yes. That's one simple word. Right? Thank you. But my point is, that's a skill, that's a skill that Ken's learned and he understands his buyer. And you heard him talk about working with executives. The company, what I would recommend you do often I I'm on here with my guests and I tell you all, you know, you need to share this with your peers.

I would recommend you take this episode and you send this to your CFO and you send this to your CEO, not your head of sales. The head of sales already is aware of people like Ken . You have a CFO and your CEO and you say, Just give this a listen. And the reason is because the CFO and the CEO are very aware.

You know, they're about the culture of the company, especially the CEO, the culture of the company, the performance nature of the company. The CFO will always be hammering the CEO. We're spending this much money. How, as the company performing are we hitting our results. And candidly, as he, as Ken said, if you want skills and whatnot, you can go to him.

He'll teach you as a screw. Will there's other there's others out there, but this is more of. Organizational aspect. We got it, the whole company going the same direction. So for my money, That's what I would be doing this episode. And I bet you, I bet you, I bet you, your CEO and your CFO's gonna listen to that and they're gonna come back to you and they're gonna say that was a brilliant share.

So I'm not trying to suck up to Ken. He already follows me on , so I'm good. He may block me after this one. We shall see, but other than. That's Ken Lundin. He is with RevHeat. Today's conversation was all about belief systems. Are they impacting you? We went at length about, do you have the need for approval?

As one example, are you self aware? Are those aspects impacting your performance and how you approaching, how you engage? Do you know how to do the skills necessary, but you're avoiding doing it in a way. So it's all about understanding the. So lots on this one, this is a little more of an intellectual, one little more of an awkwardly uncomfortable one because it's dealing with our emotions.

But you know, what you need to understand is that every single professional athlete. Has God, you know, they have a coach for their physical skills and they have a coach for their mental skills. Right. And that's a lot of what we talked about today was truly mental skills. So I love it. It was a different topic.

It was fresh. It was relevant, especially as Ken talks about as we get into a more awkward economy, when the pressure's gonna go up, the pressure's gonna go up. You can anticipate. So invest in yourself, Ken. Thank you so much, my friend. You're awesome folks. Again, RevHeat, Ken Lundin can email him at He responds pretty damn fast. I loved it. My name is Darryl that's another episode in the can my friends. Take care, we'll talk to you next week.

This episode was digitally transcribed.

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